Yes, and particularly St. Cyril of Alexandria. For the Councils, only the first seven councils, I think they say all that there is need to say. We have most of the acts, that is the verbals of the Councils, with dates, names of Bishops, etc. like modern LAWS. Unluckily somethink has been lost, the german Eduard Schwartz has edited was has been saved, it is for sale, but very expensive, ed. Walter de Gruyter
As for the Spirit that would have led conciliar decisions, I think this is somethinlike a myth, in fact the Fathers of the first millenium had something true to say; after their death nobody more has any special truth nor is led by any holy spirit.
So, what you are saying is that you trust the propositions of those early fathers who spoke the clear and unadulterated truth clearly, and you trust that the councils recorded their statements accurately and completely, inasmuch as they were spoken in or to those councils?
What about Cyril's words makes you believe they are true?
My understanding is that Cyril knew Jesus in the only way possible after the ascension (which I believe to be true because it is recorded in the Bible), and that is through the Holy Spirit, about whom much is said by those fathers you mention.
I understand that a "spiritual experience" is not provable to the senses (i.e., "makes no sense") like Muhammad's alleged encounter with Allah. Nonetheless, God's intangibility is no proof of His nonexistence, and if He is Spirit (as the Scripture says) and we are spiritual beings, then it follows that God is knowable (at least in His energies) in the Spirit, when He awakens it. I am of opinion that the fathers say this.
About the other thing that you mentioned, I appreciate that link. I have a copy of the Rudder (Pedallion) of the Orthodox Catholic Church, compiled by Stt Nicodemus and Agapius, (1800), the fifth edition (1908) translated into English (1957) by D. Cummings with commentary, apparently by him. I wonder if you know if this work (even if only in its original Greek version, which of course, would be better), and if so, what you think of it. It purports to be the Canons of all the Seven Councils you mention with canons of some relatively important local councils in between. I.e., the same thing, more or less, that the work you mention is?
Also, I wonder if you've heard of the modern Greek philosopher and teacher Apostolos Makrakis, read anything by him, and if so, what you think of his ideas? All I have of his is A New Philosophy and the Philosophical Sciences. I find it very interesting.
Sorry, I don't know the PEDALLION, anyhow I almost sure that it is very different from the books for which I gave you the LINK. This are actually the verbals of the seven Ecumenical Councils. At the time things were done like today, actually before the advent of magnetic registration, in justice Courts, there were verbalizers who wrote everything was said, it was like testimonying in a Court, after all the omilies, etc. and once written, were registered the names of all the present bishops with dates, plasces etc. The State was highly bouracratical and legal, this proceedings were mutuated from it. The canons of the Councils are something different, they are theirs decrees, like the sentences in justice Court, these, instead are both testimonies, proceedings and sentences. This is the reason for which they are so expensive. For the influence of the Holy Spirit I think this is a myth, a way of saying, nothing more. This Fathers had, simply, brains. As for modern philosophers, I may say that here in Trieste (Italy), recently, the Greek Archimandrite, a young Greek recently arrived from his country, converted himself to Roman Catholicism. I relate this conversion to bad schooling in Greece, to following modern authors, putting away old ones and to the sending the young clergy to study in Roman Catholic Institutes. Here we come to question of SCHOLIA. They are explanations of ancient authors by Byzantine school teachers, usually they are very complete and clear, very pedagogical. Byzantine teachers had the same tongue as ancient authors, so they are very autoritative, it is like that, you want a good teacher of English, you go to an English mother tongue person, so if you want a good teachers of Ancient Greek, you go to an ancient Greek mother tongue man. The authors of this SCHOLIA were mother tongue ancient Greek, and specialist teachers, so their works are really useful. Unluckily enough very few of these writings are printed, they are conserved in manuscripts or they have been printed one hundred or more years ago and not reprinted, so they are almost introvable. Since that they are not used in modern schools, with the above mentioned results. The Roman Catholics could do the job, they have means, but they don't value these wrintings. There are SCHOLIA on almost every ancient author, from Homer to Demostenes and the attic Orators, to St. Gregory of Natiance, so I am almost sure that there are also on St. Cyril of Alexandria, altough, clearly, closed in some manuscript bibliothek. But they would be a very useful mean and help for reading and understanding these authors, especially St. Cyril. Things are like that, all ancient works, well done, repose in the archives, modern ones, of doubtfull value are studied and valued in the schools. We have seen the results. I must add that it is 1000 years that Roman Catholics are very poor at learning, I can quote St. Thomas Aquinas, he wrote too much, and lived only to about 50 years, he didn't know Greek, he read Aristotle, St. John of Damascos etc in latin translation; keep in mind that Hermann Bonitz, who wrote as good a Latin as St. Thomas employed 25 years to compile his INDEX ARISTOTELICUS and found help. It is clear that St. Thomas, who wrote extensively on Aristotle and on many many others theological subjects, cannot have done things properly, if compared to Hermann Bonitz. Futher to that, St. Thomas didn't know anything of Greek commentators of Aristotle, there are quite many, all indispensable to understand this Philopher, for the same reason of the tongue. These works are available printed, also very expensive and always from Walter de Gruyter (Commentaria in Aristotelm Graeca). This is a further reason for putting in doubt the competence of St. Thomas. That is my view.
I encourage you to go to orlapubs.com and romanity.com You might see something of interest. At the second link, there is information on how to get the writings of Hieromonk Vlacos. It is vey interesting. But Fr. John Romanides I find very helpful from his historical perspective on patristcs and the Orthodox phronema.
I agree with you on the languages. And so I learned my Greek from a Greek, and my Hebrew from an Israeli. (niether very ancient though).
"Verbalizers," I see. Yes, we call them "court recorders" here in the states. I know what you mean. I'm surprised they had them so long ago. I would be very interested in their kind of writing from the councils and synods.
The Christ question?
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 05:32:47
